I am a walking work of art
January 21, 2007
Gather round, religious people and musical fans, I've got a question for you that has been bothering me for YEARS.
You churchies pull out your Old Testament, and you theater geeks pull out your lyrics sheets to "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat."
So we've got Joseph, right? Favorite son of Jacob. So Jacob's a playa, right, and he's got all these wives and tons of sons. But Joseph is his favorite son because he looks like Donny Osmond, and he gives him this big psychedelic trippy coat to show him how much he loves him. Naturally, all Joseph's brothers get totally jealous of all the attention Joseph's getting. It doesn't help that he keeps telling them about these dreams he has where they're all stars in the sky, and he's shining brighter than their crappy stars.
I'll tell you what, if my brother told me that, I'd immediately sell him as a slave to the Ishmaelites, which is exactly what Joseph's brothers did to him. To cover their tracks, they tell Jacob that Joseph was killed wrestling a goat. You can't make this stuff up, people.
Well, turns out being an Egyptian slave isn't too bad, as long as you can convince the king that you can interpret his dreams, which, again, is the first excuse I would use if I were sold to a hairy bunch of Ishmaelites.
Skip forward a few years, and Joseph is Number One to the Pharaoh's Jean Luc. It just so happened that one of the dreams Joseph deciphered had to do with stockpiling food for a coming famine. Well, unfortunately for Joseph's brothers back in Canaan, word hadn't reached them that they should keep seven years of wheat in tupperware, so they're all starving. Someone gets the bright idea to go to Egypt and hope someone will take pity on them and feed them.
The brothers show up on Joseph's doorstep, but they don't recognize him since he's all pimped out in Pharaoh handouts. So he decides to play a trick on them to see if they've changed their evil ways.
He lets them in, but after a while, he pretends he's missing his favorite golden cup, and accuses his brother Benjamin of stealing it. Suddenly, all the brothers jump to Benjamin's rescue, saying he's innocent and they like him and they'll gladly go to jail in his place.
Joseph decides that this proves they've changed their evil ways and more or less tells them, "LOL, HAY, GUYS, I'M REALLY JOSEPH!" Then they all join hands and sing about how cool it is not to be thrown in jail.
Okay, so here's my problem. The brothers hated Joseph. And who would blame them? He's all, "Gee, I keep having these dreams about how you all suck! Why do you want me to be killed by a goat?" So then he tests them by seeing if they like their other brother? And when they do, he forgives them? That doesn't prove that they've changed their ways of hating HIM. In fact, I would think that being tricked into thinking they were going to be thrown in jail for cup-theft is grounds for REALLY wanting someone to be killed by a goat.
This bothers me because I feel like such a glaring hole wouldn't be in a popular Bible story -- one popular enough to be made into a musical. Is there something I'm missing? Or does everyone just think that proving that you don't hate some other random brother is worthy of forgiveness for everyone hating you?
Or should I stop taking so seriously a musical that contains the couplet:
"His astounding clothing took the biscuit
Quite the smoothest person in the district"?
Posted by Kitsune at January 21, 2007 12:05 AM | digg this
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Dusting off my repressed memories of growing up catholic, makes me think Joseph was trying to find out if his brothers showed care for people other then themselves. Since they all showed care for their brother and were willing to go to jail for him, all is forgiven.
Posted by:
me
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A good point, and the one I want to buy, but if you define "themselves" as "all the brothers but Joseph," that is exactly what they cared about in the beginning, and they haven't changed much.
Back when they were selling Joseph to slaves, who's to say they wouldn't have equally sacrificed each other if someone had crossed another brother?
The "change" in a character arc has to show that they wouldn't do the same thing -- meaning they would be cool with Joseph getting all the attention now that they were mature or better or whatever. But they're only friends with him now because he has all the food! They still haven't been tested in their coming to terms with him being a shining star!
Posted by:
Kitsune
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This is a quick response, since I'm on my way out the door, but I think you're asking the wrong question.
Forgiveness in the bible is never about the other person... it's always about the forgiver.
After a quick read through that story, I don't think he was testing his brothers to see if they changed. He played a bunch of tricks on them, but what was the result of every one? They returned to him.
I think that he just wanted to be with them, to spend time with them... he held no grudge for what they did to him. He loved them, simply because they were family.
When he finally reveals who he is, it isn't "LOL", it's "crying my f'ing guts out because I can't stand it anymore... is my father alive!?!?"
I don't think the brothers changed at all... in fact, when Joseph sends them off to get their dad, it makes a point of recoding Josephs request to his brother to not fight along the way...
Ok... not all that well thought out of an answer, but maybe something else to think about anyways!
-Mike
Posted by:
penitentman
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I literally read this Bible story last week. (I am basing the following comments solely on that, I have not seen the musical.)
To start out, I mostly agree with Mike's comment above. Joseph was mainly trying to see if his father Jacob, and his youngest brother (Benjamin) were both still alive. IIRC, Benjamin was his only true blood brother; same mother and father. I believe all the other 'brothers' were half-brothers from Jacob's other wife.
He forgave them because he was so glad to see them, because they did what he said, and was relieved to find out that Jacob and Benjamin were both still alive.
A couple of other points: I don't think the brothers said he lost a wrestling match to a goat, rather they told Jacob that he was killed by a wild (unspecified) animal.
The brothers were jealous of Joseph because in his dreams, God revealed to him that he'd rule over his brothers one day. Of course his brothers were angered by this because they didn't want to bow down to him. But, by putting him in the empty well with the large boulder over it and telling Jacob that Joseph was killed, they actually fulfilled this prophecy once Joseph was essentially in charge of the entire land of Egypt during the famine.
Posted by:
Kevin Worthington
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I played one of the brothers in a high school production. I forget which one, but I do remember that Joseph was kind of a dick throughout the whole show. So I never really foresaw why it was the brothers who were supposed to change, anyway.
Posted by:
Zhubin
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Very interesting, all. Thanks.
And to Kevin, it must have been a goat just in the musical. "It takes a man who knows no fear to wrestle with a goat."
Posted by:
Kitsune
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Re: Goat.
Fair enough.
Posted by:
Kevin Worthington
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from what i learned going to catholic school as a kid, and mass on way too many sundays, a lot of the old testament stories are very summed up in our versions compared to the jewish versions, and are more about "the moral of the story is..."
I've never heard the jewish version of the joseph story, but i don't really see him dancing and singing about his coat.
And on that note, I'd like to see the musical version of the jewish version.
Posted by:
DragonofMystery
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Jewish?
Am I misunderstanding? Isn't the Old Testament accepted by both Jews and Christians, just some more than others?
It's way too early to be reading things.
Posted by:
Kitsune
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Forgiveness is tantamount to the forgiver and forgivee. If one is not ready to be forgiven, then they will not. If one is ready to forgive, but the other is not ready to be forgiven, then it is pointless. It also shows that if one is ready to receive and give forgiveness, all will be provided by God.
Or something like that.
Posted by:
Graham
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Dusting off my repressed memories of growing up catholic, makes me think Joseph was trying to find out if his brothers showed care for people other then themselves. Since they all showed care for their brother and were willing to go to jail for him, all is forgiven.
Posted by: me- - - - - - - - - - - - -
A good point, and the one I want to buy, but if you define "themselves" as "all the brothers but Joseph," that is exactly what they cared about in the beginning, and they haven't changed much.
Posted by: KitsuneBack when they were selling Joseph to slaves, who's to say they wouldn't have equally sacrificed each other if someone had crossed another brother?
The "change" in a character arc has to show that they wouldn't do the same thing -- meaning they would be cool with Joseph getting all the attention now that they were mature or better or whatever. But they're only friends with him now because he has all the food! They still haven't been tested in their coming to terms with him being a shining star!
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
This is a quick response, since I'm on my way out the door, but I think you're asking the wrong question.
Forgiveness in the bible is never about the other person... it's always about the forgiver.
After a quick read through that story, I don't think he was testing his brothers to see if they changed. He played a bunch of tricks on them, but what was the result of every one? They returned to him.
I think that he just wanted to be with them, to spend time with them... he held no grudge for what they did to him. He loved them, simply because they were family.
When he finally reveals who he is, it isn't "LOL", it's "crying my f'ing guts out because I can't stand it anymore... is my father alive!?!?"
I don't think the brothers changed at all... in fact, when Joseph sends them off to get their dad, it makes a point of recoding Josephs request to his brother to not fight along the way...
Ok... not all that well thought out of an answer, but maybe something else to think about anyways!
-Mike
Posted by: penitentman- - - - - - - - - - - - -
I literally read this Bible story last week. (I am basing the following comments solely on that, I have not seen the musical.)
Posted by: Kevin WorthingtonTo start out, I mostly agree with Mike's comment above. Joseph was mainly trying to see if his father Jacob, and his youngest brother (Benjamin) were both still alive. IIRC, Benjamin was his only true blood brother; same mother and father. I believe all the other 'brothers' were half-brothers from Jacob's other wife.
He forgave them because he was so glad to see them, because they did what he said, and was relieved to find out that Jacob and Benjamin were both still alive.
A couple of other points: I don't think the brothers said he lost a wrestling match to a goat, rather they told Jacob that he was killed by a wild (unspecified) animal.
The brothers were jealous of Joseph because in his dreams, God revealed to him that he'd rule over his brothers one day. Of course his brothers were angered by this because they didn't want to bow down to him. But, by putting him in the empty well with the large boulder over it and telling Jacob that Joseph was killed, they actually fulfilled this prophecy once Joseph was essentially in charge of the entire land of Egypt during the famine.
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I played one of the brothers in a high school production. I forget which one, but I do remember that Joseph was kind of a dick throughout the whole show. So I never really foresaw why it was the brothers who were supposed to change, anyway.
Posted by: Zhubin- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Very interesting, all. Thanks.
And to Kevin, it must have been a goat just in the musical. "It takes a man who knows no fear to wrestle with a goat."
Posted by: Kitsune- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Re: Goat.
Fair enough.
Posted by: Kevin Worthington- - - - - - - - - - - - -
from what i learned going to catholic school as a kid, and mass on way too many sundays, a lot of the old testament stories are very summed up in our versions compared to the jewish versions, and are more about "the moral of the story is..."
I've never heard the jewish version of the joseph story, but i don't really see him dancing and singing about his coat.
Posted by: DragonofMysteryAnd on that note, I'd like to see the musical version of the jewish version.
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Jewish?
Posted by: KitsuneAm I misunderstanding? Isn't the Old Testament accepted by both Jews and Christians, just some more than others?
It's way too early to be reading things.
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Forgiveness is tantamount to the forgiver and forgivee. If one is not ready to be forgiven, then they will not. If one is ready to forgive, but the other is not ready to be forgiven, then it is pointless. It also shows that if one is ready to receive and give forgiveness, all will be provided by God.
Or something like that.
Posted by: Graham- - - - - - - - - - - - -